Dear Gabby,
What I am realizing now is that my daughter and I have had a reversed relationship. My biggest fear was losing her to a child abductor. I did everything I could to protect her from such a horrible event. I didn't let her out of my sight. If she got out of my sight for more than a minute I was in such a panic stricken state that I couldn't breath. When she was 16 she ran away when I put my foot down about the 20 year old she was dating. I did not sleep and only paced the floor the entire time she was gone. Later I allowed another boyfriend to move in with us so I didn't have to go through the torture again.
She has learned (and very well I might add) to use my fears against me. She is now 27. She is now married to the young man I allowed to move in with us. They have 2 great kids. My granddaughter is 9 and my grandson is 6. They lived with me until my granddaughter was 3. When I put my foot down about supporting them all financially and otherwise they cut me off from my grandchildren for 1 1/2 years. My granddaughter and I were very close. She told me later "Meemaw, where were you? I cried for you." My daughter simply didn't care how this effected her daughter. She was just set out to punish me. My punishment is knowing my granddaughter loves and wants to see her meemaw.
We started talking after 1 1/2 years. My daughter promised it wouldn't happen again. We fell into old patterns and I babysat whenever and loaned money without being payed back. I became angry when I was cut out of important events in the kids lifes so the other grandma could be there. The other grandma doesn't like me so I was uninvited. This grandma does not love the kids she is very superficial and only wants to be around them for show. My granddaughter has expressed to me that she does not like her. Needless to say I put my foot down because I couldn't take it anymore. I have been cut out again since July 2008. Like the last time she has changed her number and even though I have not attempted to go to her home, I know she will call police or simply not answer if I do. Her husband is always thrilled when our relationship is strained because he is jealous of how close we are when we are on speaking terms. His mom is very cold and superficial. That is why he lived with me at 16.
I hate my daughter now. It is a weird feeling but very real. If it werent for my grandkids I really wouldn't care.
My question is. How do I mend this relationship so that I can see my grandkids again? I know my granddaughter is being lied to. She e-mails me sometimes and tells me she misses me. I know her e-mails are monitored so she can't say everything she wants to. It is like she is being held hostage by 2 very stupid monsters that hate me more than they love her. PLEASE HELP.
Estranged from daughter and grandkids
Re: Estranged from daughter and grandkids
Hi Meemaw:
I don’t get that you are ready to have abuse-free personal relationships. Most would predict, even after reading the following, that you’ll still be embroiled in this drama five years from now; worse yet, that you’ll continue to model for your grandchildren how to foment and put up with abuse so that they too will treat their children as does your daughter you.
The worst thing your daughter can do is to let you interact with her children; remember, it’s your leadership-communication skills that taught her to treat you this way. Conversations with your grandchildren will continue to imprint on them the same behaviors—to abuse and put up with abuse—which most always requires therapy/counseling later in life. Already you are unconsciously teaching them to badmouth others. I.e. ". . . the other grandmother."
The bottom line is you need therapy, not counseling—(25) 50-minute sessions. The best you can hope for is to complete your addiction to controlling and to abusing and to being abused. Your therapy will not heal your daughter or your already damaged grandchildren. To complete your addiction to abusing and to being abused you’ll have to be willing to acknowledge that you trained your daughter to treat you this way. It’s your leadership-relationship communication-skills that are producing these results. Your therapy (you being whole and complete, powerful, centered, contributing to life) could possibly inspire one or more to want to be like you; but it can't happen unless you intend for them to be and act the way they need to. Trying to change your daughter is not love, it will continue to produce more resistance. Creating space for growth works.
You’ll have to grieve for the loss of everyone, daughter and grandchildren, and, recess them from your life, not seeing (interacting/communicating) them ever again after you have delivered (in writing) your estrangement ultimatum to them and have completed your 25 sessions of therapy. The pain you’ll have to choose to experience will seemingly be unbearable, much like an alcoholic with the DTs.
Most parents who have created similar symbiotic abusive relationship have no choice but to put up with things—such is their addiction to abuse and to being a victim. You need someone to blame for your inability to be happy when others need/choose to be sick. I say "symbiotic" because your daughter requires her fix of abusing and being abused much like a drug addict. She requires that you keep communicating exactly as you have been. She cannot possibly heal as long as you keep interacting with her and your grandchildren.
An alternative to therapy is to immerse yourself in volunteering, not a few hours per week but some non-profit that needs you 8 hours per day, one whose time-consuming mission is vital and dear to your heart. Through service you will get to know who you are and, be able to create space for your family to discover themselves, by themselves, no interactions with them ever until they fulfill your ultimatum of 25 hours each of therapy.
To answer your question, “How do I mend this relationship so that I can see my grandkids again?” You can’t, not with your present leadership-relationship communication skills. Even if your daughter died, you’d still be addicted to creating abusive drama.
Please do not reply until you can tell me you’ve not interacted with her, her husband (the enabler of this abuse) or the grandchildren for 6-months in a row.
I recommend that you print this reply and send it to your daughter.
With love,
Gabby
P.S. To your credit, you had the wisdom to write; you're at a fork in the road, more of the same or to begin your healing. Once they all see how to extract oneself from abuse they too can model what works. It could be said that they are waiting for you to lead the way.
P.P.S. A therapist will focus solely on your relationship with your parents. You're dragging around hundreds of incompletes with them into each and every interaction with everyone.
P.P.P.S. A good start to compliment your therapy is to do The [free] Clearing Process.
Lasted 4/22/21
I don’t get that you are ready to have abuse-free personal relationships. Most would predict, even after reading the following, that you’ll still be embroiled in this drama five years from now; worse yet, that you’ll continue to model for your grandchildren how to foment and put up with abuse so that they too will treat their children as does your daughter you.
The worst thing your daughter can do is to let you interact with her children; remember, it’s your leadership-communication skills that taught her to treat you this way. Conversations with your grandchildren will continue to imprint on them the same behaviors—to abuse and put up with abuse—which most always requires therapy/counseling later in life. Already you are unconsciously teaching them to badmouth others. I.e. ". . . the other grandmother."
The bottom line is you need therapy, not counseling—(25) 50-minute sessions. The best you can hope for is to complete your addiction to controlling and to abusing and to being abused. Your therapy will not heal your daughter or your already damaged grandchildren. To complete your addiction to abusing and to being abused you’ll have to be willing to acknowledge that you trained your daughter to treat you this way. It’s your leadership-relationship communication-skills that are producing these results. Your therapy (you being whole and complete, powerful, centered, contributing to life) could possibly inspire one or more to want to be like you; but it can't happen unless you intend for them to be and act the way they need to. Trying to change your daughter is not love, it will continue to produce more resistance. Creating space for growth works.
You’ll have to grieve for the loss of everyone, daughter and grandchildren, and, recess them from your life, not seeing (interacting/communicating) them ever again after you have delivered (in writing) your estrangement ultimatum to them and have completed your 25 sessions of therapy. The pain you’ll have to choose to experience will seemingly be unbearable, much like an alcoholic with the DTs.
Most parents who have created similar symbiotic abusive relationship have no choice but to put up with things—such is their addiction to abuse and to being a victim. You need someone to blame for your inability to be happy when others need/choose to be sick. I say "symbiotic" because your daughter requires her fix of abusing and being abused much like a drug addict. She requires that you keep communicating exactly as you have been. She cannot possibly heal as long as you keep interacting with her and your grandchildren.
An alternative to therapy is to immerse yourself in volunteering, not a few hours per week but some non-profit that needs you 8 hours per day, one whose time-consuming mission is vital and dear to your heart. Through service you will get to know who you are and, be able to create space for your family to discover themselves, by themselves, no interactions with them ever until they fulfill your ultimatum of 25 hours each of therapy.
To answer your question, “How do I mend this relationship so that I can see my grandkids again?” You can’t, not with your present leadership-relationship communication skills. Even if your daughter died, you’d still be addicted to creating abusive drama.
Please do not reply until you can tell me you’ve not interacted with her, her husband (the enabler of this abuse) or the grandchildren for 6-months in a row.
I recommend that you print this reply and send it to your daughter.
With love,
Gabby
P.S. To your credit, you had the wisdom to write; you're at a fork in the road, more of the same or to begin your healing. Once they all see how to extract oneself from abuse they too can model what works. It could be said that they are waiting for you to lead the way.
P.P.S. A therapist will focus solely on your relationship with your parents. You're dragging around hundreds of incompletes with them into each and every interaction with everyone.
P.P.P.S. A good start to compliment your therapy is to do The [free] Clearing Process.
Lasted 4/22/21
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meemawloves
Re: Estranged from daughter and grandkids
I WAS SORRY THAT I POSTED THIS RIGHT AFTER I READ SEVERAL LETTERS YOU HAD WRITTEN OTHERS.
I THINK YOU ARE ADDICTED AT TELLING EVERYONE THEY ARE ADDICTED TO ABUSE. IT SEEMS TO BE YOUR ANSWER TO EVERYTHING. YOU SEEM TO HAVE MORE OF AN ISSUE THEN EVERYONE ELSE. I THINK YOU NEED 50 SESSIONS OF THERAPY.
GOOD LUCK
I THINK YOU ARE ADDICTED AT TELLING EVERYONE THEY ARE ADDICTED TO ABUSE. IT SEEMS TO BE YOUR ANSWER TO EVERYTHING. YOU SEEM TO HAVE MORE OF AN ISSUE THEN EVERYONE ELSE. I THINK YOU NEED 50 SESSIONS OF THERAPY.
GOOD LUCK
Re: Estranged from daughter and grandkids
Our policy is no private/personal email communications. We post all such emails here on the forum for everyone to read.
After meemaw read Gabby's reply she emailed the following:
After meemaw read Gabby's reply she emailed the following:
GabbySat, 17 Jan 2009 10:08:34 "YOU MEAN THE EVERYONE IS ADDICTED TO ABUSE AND SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THEIR FAMILIES FORUM." —meemaw
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meemawloves
Re: Estranged from daughter and grandkids
YOU HAVE SUGGESTED THAT I HAVE TOLD MY GRANDDAUGHTER BAD THINGS ABOUT HER OTHER GRANDMA.
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. WHEN SHE SAYS THINGS TO ME LIKE . SHE DOES NOT LIKE HER GRANDMA. IT IS BECAUSE HER GRANDMA MAKES IT PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT SHE IS FAR FROM THE FAVORITE OF THE OTHER GRANDCHILDREN. I WOULD NEVER EVER TELL MY GRANDDAUGHTER ANYTHING THAT WOULD HURT HER FEELINGS. I DO NOT DISMISS HOW SHE FEELS EITHER. I JUST TELL HER THAT HER GRANDMOTHER IS DIFFERENT ABOUT SHOWING HER LOVE THAN HER MEEMAW AND THAT HER GRANDMOTHER LOVES HER IN HER OWN WAY. I WAS MY GRANDDAUGHTERS OUTLET FROM HER MOTHER AND FATHER AND GRANDMA WHO SHE IS TERRIFIED TO THE POINT OF SHAKING OF TELLING THEM ANYTHING. NOW SHE DOES NOT EVEN HAVE ME TO TALK TO . I CALLED HER SCHOOL AND TALKED TO HER COUNSLOR ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON. THE COUNSELOR AGREED TO TALK TO MY GRANDDAUGHTER TO GIVE HER AN OUTLET.
NOW MY GRANDDAUGHTER HAS HAD TO HEAR HER OTHER GRANDMOTHER PUT ME DOWN EVERYTIME SHE IS AROUND HER.
SHE HAS MENTIONED THIS TO ME AND ALL I HAVE TOLD HER IS . ME AND HER GRANDMA DO NOT GET ALONG. I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW WHY SHE DOES NOT LIKE ME . I HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO BE KIND TO HER AND SHE PUTS HER NOSE IN THE AIR AND WALKS AWAY. I AM ASSUMING IT IS SOME LIE MY DAUGHTER AND SON-IN-LAW HAVE TOLD HER. IT IS HARD TO FIGHT AGAINST SOMETHING IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.
I AGREE THAT I COULD BENEFIT FORM SOME COUNSELING PART OF THE REASON I PUT MY FOOT DOWN WITH MY DAUGHTER THIS TIME WAS TO SHOW MY GRANDDAUGHTER THAT MEEMAW IS STRONG. MY GRANDDAUGHTER AND I ARE VERY SIMILAR PERSONALITY WISE. I DO NOT THINK SHE IS OLD ENOUGH TO APPRECIATE WHAT I HAVE DONE. I FEEL LIKE I HAVE ABANDONED HER WHEN I WAS THE ONLY ONE SHE FELT SHE COULD TALK TO.
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. WHEN SHE SAYS THINGS TO ME LIKE . SHE DOES NOT LIKE HER GRANDMA. IT IS BECAUSE HER GRANDMA MAKES IT PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT SHE IS FAR FROM THE FAVORITE OF THE OTHER GRANDCHILDREN. I WOULD NEVER EVER TELL MY GRANDDAUGHTER ANYTHING THAT WOULD HURT HER FEELINGS. I DO NOT DISMISS HOW SHE FEELS EITHER. I JUST TELL HER THAT HER GRANDMOTHER IS DIFFERENT ABOUT SHOWING HER LOVE THAN HER MEEMAW AND THAT HER GRANDMOTHER LOVES HER IN HER OWN WAY. I WAS MY GRANDDAUGHTERS OUTLET FROM HER MOTHER AND FATHER AND GRANDMA WHO SHE IS TERRIFIED TO THE POINT OF SHAKING OF TELLING THEM ANYTHING. NOW SHE DOES NOT EVEN HAVE ME TO TALK TO . I CALLED HER SCHOOL AND TALKED TO HER COUNSLOR ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON. THE COUNSELOR AGREED TO TALK TO MY GRANDDAUGHTER TO GIVE HER AN OUTLET.
NOW MY GRANDDAUGHTER HAS HAD TO HEAR HER OTHER GRANDMOTHER PUT ME DOWN EVERYTIME SHE IS AROUND HER.
SHE HAS MENTIONED THIS TO ME AND ALL I HAVE TOLD HER IS . ME AND HER GRANDMA DO NOT GET ALONG. I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW WHY SHE DOES NOT LIKE ME . I HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO BE KIND TO HER AND SHE PUTS HER NOSE IN THE AIR AND WALKS AWAY. I AM ASSUMING IT IS SOME LIE MY DAUGHTER AND SON-IN-LAW HAVE TOLD HER. IT IS HARD TO FIGHT AGAINST SOMETHING IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.
I AGREE THAT I COULD BENEFIT FORM SOME COUNSELING PART OF THE REASON I PUT MY FOOT DOWN WITH MY DAUGHTER THIS TIME WAS TO SHOW MY GRANDDAUGHTER THAT MEEMAW IS STRONG. MY GRANDDAUGHTER AND I ARE VERY SIMILAR PERSONALITY WISE. I DO NOT THINK SHE IS OLD ENOUGH TO APPRECIATE WHAT I HAVE DONE. I FEEL LIKE I HAVE ABANDONED HER WHEN I WAS THE ONLY ONE SHE FELT SHE COULD TALK TO.
Re: Estranged from daughter and grandkids
Hi Meemah,
You were asked to not post again until, “. . . you can tell me you’ve not interacted with her, her husband (the enabler of this abuse) or the grandchildren for 6-months in a row.” —instead you pumped out an abusive angry reply. Notice that your posts are in angry capital (yelling) letters; this confirms my experience that you are addicted to abuse. I know you would never treat another (me) that way if you had a choice.
You also were driven by anger to email me, "YOU MEAN THE EVERYONE IS ADDICTED TO ABUSE AND SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THEIR FAMILIES FORUM." There is a way to express anger without condescending sarcasm.
Re: “YOU HAVE SUGGESTED THAT I HAVE TOLD MY GRANDDAUGHTER BAD THINGS ABOUT HER OTHER GRANDMA. No. What I wrote is: “Already you are unconsciously teaching them to badmouth others, i.e. '. . . the other grandmother.'”
Now you write and justify your actions, missing the point that you are allowing your granddaughter to complain about her other grandmother instead of supporting her in going to the grandmother and express her dissatisfactions responsibly. Her behavior is referred to as, “behind the back irresponsible badmouthing” a behavior you taught your daughter. What works is to teach your grandchildren to go to the source with an upset rather than dumping it in another’s space.
Each time you “talk” (interact) with your grandchildren you imprint your addiction to abuse. You are presently teaching them your way of communicating/relating—the effects of which cause friction and divisiveness, it’s not a gift of love.
I have banned you from posting. You may register again in six-months providing you can then tell me that have not interacted with your daughter, her husband (the enabler of this abuse) or the grandchildren for 6-months in a row and have completed 25 hours of therapy.
The finest gift you can give your family is for you to immerse yourself in therapy. Do show your therapist and the others our posts.
I’m very aware of how difficult it has been, and is, for you read and be with my replies. What works is to be with your reaction rather than act upon it—choose to experience the upset rather than try to get in the last word.
With aloha,
Gabby
Lasted edited 3/15/21
You were asked to not post again until, “. . . you can tell me you’ve not interacted with her, her husband (the enabler of this abuse) or the grandchildren for 6-months in a row.” —instead you pumped out an abusive angry reply. Notice that your posts are in angry capital (yelling) letters; this confirms my experience that you are addicted to abuse. I know you would never treat another (me) that way if you had a choice.
You also were driven by anger to email me, "YOU MEAN THE EVERYONE IS ADDICTED TO ABUSE AND SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THEIR FAMILIES FORUM." There is a way to express anger without condescending sarcasm.
Re: “YOU HAVE SUGGESTED THAT I HAVE TOLD MY GRANDDAUGHTER BAD THINGS ABOUT HER OTHER GRANDMA. No. What I wrote is: “Already you are unconsciously teaching them to badmouth others, i.e. '. . . the other grandmother.'”
Now you write and justify your actions, missing the point that you are allowing your granddaughter to complain about her other grandmother instead of supporting her in going to the grandmother and express her dissatisfactions responsibly. Her behavior is referred to as, “behind the back irresponsible badmouthing” a behavior you taught your daughter. What works is to teach your grandchildren to go to the source with an upset rather than dumping it in another’s space.
Each time you “talk” (interact) with your grandchildren you imprint your addiction to abuse. You are presently teaching them your way of communicating/relating—the effects of which cause friction and divisiveness, it’s not a gift of love.
I have banned you from posting. You may register again in six-months providing you can then tell me that have not interacted with your daughter, her husband (the enabler of this abuse) or the grandchildren for 6-months in a row and have completed 25 hours of therapy.
The finest gift you can give your family is for you to immerse yourself in therapy. Do show your therapist and the others our posts.
I’m very aware of how difficult it has been, and is, for you read and be with my replies. What works is to be with your reaction rather than act upon it—choose to experience the upset rather than try to get in the last word.
With aloha,
Gabby
Lasted edited 3/15/21